Keptverse Thinky Thoughts #1

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Part of the thought behind having a comm was because there was so much good meta discussion about the world going on in various places. So...here: have some meta. :)



For me, one of the things that's been fascinating is seeing the ways in which Jensen, Joe, and now Kyle are both similar and very different, and how closely that's tied in with their childhood experiences. (Jared as well, but unlike the other three, he's not a body-slave, which adds another layer of difference.)

Kyle is coming from a completely different place from Joe and Jensen, since he was enslaved as a teenager. Joe and Jensen were both enslaved as very young children--Joe at 5 and Jensen at 7--but for them, the key difference is in the households and who their owners were. Jensen, of course, was owned by Tom Cruise (who I loathe in this fic even more than I already do the real-life version). He was trained by private tutors, and from what we've seen so far, he never had much contact with other kids his own age--in fact, it seems like he was never actually allowed to be a child at all. His only source of affection was Cruise, who was also his master, making him dependent on him both for emotional feedback and literal support. And...Cruise was good, and by the time he was through, Jensen seemed to have internalized the propaganda of this world, so that he genuinely believes that Master Is Always Right, and that he has no identity outside of his master's will.

Joe...well, not so much, for one reason that I didn't actually plan. While on paper, his owners were David and Sarah Neal, his master was Dylan, a boy only a year older than he was. Basically, they bought Joe for Dylan instead of, say, getting their son a puppy--and then, because they were overprotective, they didn't tell Dylan that Joe wasn't just his best friend who happened to live with them until they'd been living each other's pockets for over a year. Joe and Dylan did kid stuff together: playing video games, swimming, and just generally goofing off. Joe knew what the real situation was, but for the most part, it didn't affect his daily interactions with his nominal master.

Then Dylan and Joe went to school. Again unlike Jensen, Joe was constantly in the company of other kids who were in situations similar to his. But when the instructors tried to indoctrinate their slave charges, and to get them to understand that their masters know best because they're the masters, they ran into the rigid logic that kids often have. Joe's weighing what he's being told against his own experience, where Dylan's older but more passive, and much more willing to let Joe take the lead--or, as he puts it much later, "They were trying to tell me that my master was inherently more capable than I was, and I kept thinking, "Yeah, but he's a year older than me and sometimes he still wets the bed."

Even after Dylan figured out what Joe's true role was, he wanted desperately to believe that Joe liked him for himself, not because he had to. Especially after he got Joe beaten, Dylan hated to give Joe orders because he was terrified that Joe would go into perfect slave mode, which both of them knew was fake. Joe grew up thinking that Dylan was nice but really clueless, a mix of mild contempt for how helpless he was and an older sibling's protectiveness. Joe and Dylan were a bit of an extreme, but in general, I think the trend for rich kids having their own body-slaves from a very early age would become less common over time because it does lead to an over-familiarity, and slaves who don't hold their masters in awe.

The other big difference between Joe and Jensen is in who their parent figures were. Jensen had Cruise, but Dylan's parents made it clear from the get-go that they weren't interested in playing that role for Joe. (They weren't all that good at doing it for Dylan, frankly.) He also seemed to have Mimi for part of the time. Joe, on the other hand, was essentially the baby of the staff, and everyone, especially Kim, the Mistress' body-slave, Andy, the head groom, and Sherri, the cook, positively doted on him. I've got a whole separate post of what it meant that Joe was close to the other (non-body) slaves in the household. But in terms of parental affection, he got it from people who weren't supposed to be above him in station.

Looking at some of Jensen and Joe's formative experiences, it's easy to see how this made a huge difference in their later outlooks. Jensen had Cruise blindfold him and leave him to find his way out of a huge room with all sorts of obstacles, to teach him how slaves must rely on their master's guidance. Afterwards, Jensen remembers that Cruise picked the glass out of his feet himself, as a sign of affection.

At a similar age, Joe got beaten by Dylan's father in order to teach Dylan about having responsibility to his slave. Dylan's parents were concerned with their son's well-being, but they did have one of the other slaves come in and take charge of Joe. I've only shown that moment so far from Dylan's POV, but after Andy took Joe, Kim and Sherri ran a bath for him and hugged him and wrapped him up in Andy's bathrobe and gave him ice cream. More importantly, though, they let Joe vent for a while, and scream about how much he hated Dylan. Eventually they did explain that he couldn't say that--but they also validated Joe's feelings and agreed that Dylan had been wrong and that Joe had a right to be angry.

The staff also served as a reality check for him. He could come back from school and ask if it was really true that the masters knew more because they were masters, and get the answer, "No, it's not--but you need to pretend that it is." When Dylan's father was obviously interested in having sex with Joe, everyone (except for poor Dylan) knew it, and disapproved even if no one said it out loud. Here again, Joe's sense that David wanting to fuck him was wrong was backed up by the messages he got from people around him, even though it contradicted what he'd been taught in school (you're property; your owner has the right to use you as he sees fit). If anyone ever suggested that Joe'd been raped, he'd give them a John Sheppard-style smirk and say, "Don't be ridiculous--the law says that slaves can't be raped."

Jensen and Joe were both given indoctrination in how to be a good slave, but where Jensen internalized the messages because he didn't have anything to counter it, Joe was constantly having those messages subverted, and learning how to fake it enough to get by. He had people around him who loved him for himself, and a master who would have been happier if he and Joe could have just been friends.

So does this mean that Joe's healthier than Jensen? No, actually. Where Jensen's armor is his "perfect slave" mantra, Joe's is his cynicism. Jensen believes that the masters really are superior; Joe has enormous contempt for masters as a class--but in both cases, it's what lets them get through the day. It's tiring to have to maintain the masks, and to pretend you respect people that you generally despise.

Comments

[almostnever.livejournal.com]

It's really interesting to see all this spelled out meta-wise. Thanks!

[lomer.livejournal.com]

I thought Jensen was 7 when he was enslaved, but I suck at numbers, I could be remembering it wrong.

I think one key difference between Jensen and Joe is Jensen was raised in isolation and Joe was raised with a community. You've pointed out that difference, and it's a huge one. Jensen literally had to rely on his first love/father figure for any sort of insight as to who he's supposed to be while Joe was able to get many opinions and then decide for himself.

It also seems like Jensen had negative experiences associating with other slaves whereas Joe had positive ones. This can only heighten the sense of isolation for Jensen and cause him to rely even more on his Master.

It's too late for me to properly verbalize my thoughts, but I'm loving these discussions!

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

I thought Jensen was 7 when he was enslaved, but I suck at numbers, I could be remembering it wrong.

No--you were right. That was a typo on my part.

Jensen literally had to rely on his first love/father figure for any sort of insight as to who he's supposed to be while Joe was able to get many opinions and then decide for himself.

Right, and Joe couldn't rely on his first master, because he wasn't any wiser than Joe himself. To a great extent, Joe's identity is also centered in his role, but he's not interested in being the perfect slave--he'd rather be the slave who works the system to his best advantage. He looks out for his master to the degree that it means looking out for himself.

It also seems like Jensen had negative experiences associating with other slaves whereas Joe had positive ones.

Yes, and I'm going to do a separate post about that. :) Basically, though, Joe saw how getting the staff on your side makes things much easier, and made a habit of being nice to them, as he showed with Paul.

[telesilla.livejournal.com]

Since we'll be getting a little more of his backstory in the next part of Lock and Key, I'll throw in some stuff about Kyle here.

Kyle's dad skipped out on his family when Kyle had just turned 14. He left behind Kyle, Kyle's mom, and a pile of debts that Kyle's mom, who wasn't well to begin with, could pay off. She killed herself and Kyle, who already knew they were in trouble financially, ran away.

He managed to live on the streets for about a year, mostly hooking because there are guys out there are free but can't afford to keep slaves. As is inevitable, he gt picked up by the cops and turned over to Commerce. Normally, he'd have been sent off to do one of the shit jobs, but since he was very very pretty, Commerce knew they'd make more money off him by selling him as a body-slave. He was given minimal training and sold to a single guy who just wanted a pretty boy for a while.

Kyle's first master was about average as masters in this universe go. He wasn't as batshit crazy as Cruise, nor was he as liberal as Jeff, Jason, David or Dylan. He wanted Kyle to be there for sex and to maintain his wardrobe and make sure he looked good in public.

From there, Kyle went to the Parsons, specifically Lady Parsons. She was pretty crazy, but it was more a matter of constant mood swings and spoiled rich lady temper tantrums than anything else. As long as Kyle kept her amused and/or distracted so she didn't ask questions about where her husband was getting all his money, things were fine. He mostly managed and toward the end, was pretty good at judging what she wanted from him. Although he was usually busy dealing with her whims, the rest of the household appreciated him because he kept her as stable as possible.

But what he came away with from this is that the master class are a bunch of hypocritical assholes who should be first against the wall when the revolution comes and really the only way to survive in this world is to look out for Number One.

So he's cynical like Joe, but he's also angry and not all that resigned to his fate. He thinks that slaves like Jensen, who actually buy into the whole thing, are idiots.

Of course, he's young--just 24--and so he's got a lot of learning to do.

(I'm gonna need a Kyle icon at some point.)

[fufaraw]

Would any of the ones in this post do?

I love the ramifications of all the backstories you're all giving the characters in this verse. Layers of yummy meta and complex worldbuilding.

[livrelibre.livejournal.com]

It's tiring to have to maintain the masks

What you say here struck me in the last part that poisontaster just posted in a different way. Whereas Joe is disguising cynicism and contempt, Jensen reminds me of a geisha in that his mask is compliance and reflection of his master's needs. It's the "perfect slave" mask but the real reactions he's covering are often based on anxiety (am I measuring up, pleasing), though he has his standards that Jeff clearly isn't living up to (in fact, that's the most human/critical Jensen seems to get). Both are tiring, just in different ways.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Yes, absolutely. Neither of them can ever be themselves. Joe has a slightly better sense that he has a self outside of his master, but even that self is largely a construct that he created to deal with his situation.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

[nod] It's very easy to assume, from our realspace POV, that Joe is healthier than Jensen, whatever that means. But if one defines "mental health" as the ability to cope and maintain and get through the day with some sort of satisfaction, then I think a lot of that is situational. That is, what's a healthy attitude depends on circumstances, and especially sucky circumstances are going to define some particularly weird and even unhealthy-looking attitudes as "healthy" within that environment.

Jensen looks particularly messed up, and it's true that his world view has an especially narrow range of applicability. But given that he is a slave, in a world where manumission is impossible and physical escape nearly so, Jensen's world view and his definition of success for himself being a behavior set which is focused on being perfectly pleasing to his master is actually very adaptive. We might admire a person who's constantly resisting and rebelling and trying to escape or otherwise thwart the inherently evil system and the people it privileges, and we might recognize that if enough slaves hold that attitude and take those actions, eventually something is likely to crack, but that doesn't do any individual slave much good along the way.

There's a reason people who stand up and defy a bad system are considered heroes; heroic action is, by definition, action most people don't or can't take. And there's a reason heroes are so often honored posthumously; we might admire a brave, futile, symbolic stand which eventually inspires or encourages others to successful action, but the dead guy is still dead.

From Jensen's POV, he figured out as a child how the world worked and then settled in. He figured out what worked for him, what attitudes and standards brought him the greatest amount of positive reinforcement and comfort, and the least amount of pain and disapproval. By defining for himself the way his masters treated him as inherently good and right and fair, he freed himself from the stress of resentment and dissatisfaction. If he could construct a world view for himself where his treatment was normal and positive and satisfying, then he could relax into it and know for a fact that his life was good. It might look completely messed up to us, and to the reformers and abolitionists of his own world, but it worked for him. It might be frustrating to see what we think of as a completely subordinated sense of self and a twisted view of what's right, but again, it worked for him. It was a very adaptive attitude, especially given the reality of his particular experience of slavery, and of his complete lack of any sort of support for developing a more cynical and subversive attitude.

I don't think Jensen's attitude of complete acceptance would've been likely to develop if he'd been raised with other slaves, even others his own age. It doesn't take much to reassure a person that he's not crazy, that yeah, other people resent this too, other people wish for this other thing too, other people are angry too. Just a glance at the right time and you know that the kid next to you thinks this is kind of fucked up, the same as you do, and you know you're not crazy and that can be enough to let you build the layers of masks -- which is what Joe did. (Although he had even more support than that.) Jensen didn't have that, though. Everyone he came into contact with reinforced the system, not only the actions but the attitudes. In his world, when he was small, he would've been the only person, so far as he could tell, who wondered or doubted or held any resentment. That's a classic brainwashing situation, and it would've been easy for even an adult to start wondering whether he was the crazy one after a while. For a 7-year-old it was pretty much inevitable that he'd adapt and go along and internalize the propaganda.

Which is a lot of verbage to say that I agree with you. Jensen's having more trouble now than Joe is, but Jensen is like an animal which had perfectly adapted to its weird little niche environment. Now that he's been taken out of that environment, he's having a harder time re-adapting, but his belief system was more adaptive for someone owned by supporters of the slave system.

Angie

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

By defining for himself the way his masters treated him as inherently good and right and fair, he freed himself from the stress of resentment and dissatisfaction. If he could construct a world view for himself where his treatment was normal and positive and satisfying, then he could relax into it and know for a fact that his life was good.

It's Stockholm Syndrome as a way of life. The only problem is that if the master's always right, then when you get injured through no fault of your own and sold because you're not perfect, it's your fault. If you're being beaten and starved, it's not because your master is fucked up, it's because you're flawed, and therefore, you deserve to be punished.

It might look completely messed up to us, and to the reformers and abolitionists of his own world, but it worked for him.

The thing is that so far, about the only other slave we've really seen him interact with is Jared, who's so different that he might as well be from another planet--and who's also a guy with a huge heart who wants to protect his friends. Every time I read a new piece, though, I practically have to sit on the Joe in my head, who thinks Jensen is completely fucked up and feels a mix of "glad that's not me," and "wow, are you stupid, kid."

From Joe's perspective, internalizing the propaganda means that you leave yourself more open to getting hurt when you can't measure up to an impossible standard. Focusing everything on your master means that you have nothing to fall back on when you inevitably get sold--and that you're more likely to alienate the rest of the staff and have no one to watch your back when you need it. With the exception of Dylan, and later, James Spader, Joe's been able to maintain enough distance so that when he does get sold, he can close that chapter and move on to the next without feeling adrift or lost. Yes, he's incredibly manipulative, but that allows him to hang on to some measure of control.

And still, we'd look at him as broken. This is someone who, at 14, deliberately encouraged himself to become a masochist, because he essentially figured that he'd be happier if he learned to lie back and enjoy it. The fact that he's very self-aware and *knows* how screwed up that is doesn't change the fact that it's a manifestation of damage.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

The only problem is that if the master's always right, then when you get injured through no fault of your own and sold because you're not perfect, it's your fault. If you're being beaten and starved, it's not because your master is fucked up, it's because you're flawed, and therefore, you deserve to be punished.

Right, but given the circumstances -- a world where masters are allowed to beat and starve their slaves if they feel like it and nothing much is likely to happen no matter what the laws actually say -- would a different attitude make things any better? If Jensen believes the punishments are his own fault, then in a weirdly twisted way that gives him some agency in his own mind, in that he has something to focus on that he can do to try to fix the situation. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant because realizing the truth won't change anything; instead, realizing the truth that your master is a fucked up jerkwad who's going to beat or starve you "just because" only removes any sense of control over the situation the slave might've had (no matter how mistaken he was) and replaces guilt with helplessness. Both suck.

I think it's a given that a real jerkwad type of master is going to mess over any slave, possibly to the point of maiming or death, and there's nothing any slave is going to be able to do about it. But taking a step or two back down the asshole scale, a slave like Jensen might be able to satisfy someone who's exacting but not randomly cruel, and find some personal satisfaction in that. Whereas someone like Joe, who knows how messed up this is, would be more likely to harbor resentments and dissatisfaction which don't help him change anything. Jensen's attitude, although founded on a delusion about the way the world should work, seems to ironically be the one which provides the most comfort, satisfaction, whatever you want to call it, in an inherently sucky but unchangeable situation.

It seems to me that Joe can cope in a wider variety of situations than Jensen can, and that given their new positions with masters who aren't really into the whole slave thing, Joe will find the optimal level of adjustment and comfort more quickly and easily than Jensen will. (Although not right away or easily easily, just speaking comparatively.) But in a more extreme situation of abuse, Jensen would be the one to find that optimal adjustment position, and would be able to find some satisfaction in a situation where Joe would just be coping.

Or maybe I'm missing something. But their very different upbringings and environments from the time when they were small and first enslaved have made them the two very different people they are. Each one adapted optimally to his own environment and conditions, and the adult Joe and Jensen are the current products of those processes. Jensen's adaptation, despite looking very broken to us, worked very well for him. "Stockholm Syndrome as a way of life" is exactly it, but when your "kidnapper" does in fact own you for most of your life, it's a logical development.

The thing is that so far, about the only other slave we've really seen him interact with is Jared

Yes, that's absolutely part of it. So far as we've seen, Jensen has been very isolated as a slave. Wasn't he the only slave when he was with Cruise? So we've got this little kid, taken away from his family, with only his master to rely on and look to, and no other slaves to give him any emotional support or a different POV. By the time he was resold and his situation changed (and I don't remember whether we were told whether his next situation or three were substantially different anyway) his world view was set and a dissenting opinion from another slave wasn't going to be enough to get him to question it.

[Continued on Next Rock...]

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

[...Continued from Previous Rock]

From Joe's perspective, internalizing the propaganda means that you leave yourself more open to getting hurt when you can't measure up to an impossible standard.

True, but Jensen's so good that he probably has managed to be very pleasing at times, yes? I mean, seriously, I'd think that just about any conservative-jerk slave owner would love to have a slave like Jensen. Or several. :P

Focusing everything on your master means that you have nothing to fall back on when you inevitably get sold

But if you're completely focused on the fact that Master Is Right, and that whatever your master wants is the law of the universe, then selling you if he wants is the right thing to do and you'll have a new master to focus on soon and if you can be Good for him, he'll be pleased with you too. It's sort of a realspace (as opposed to spiritual) version of the Muslim surrender to Allah's will. If what you want is whatever God wants, then you'll be content no matter what happens. I think Jensen is painfully close to that ideal.

Every time I read a new piece, though, I practically have to sit on the Joe in my head, who thinks Jensen is completely fucked up

And he's right. [wry smile] But Jensen's a product of his environment and experiences just as Joe is, and Jensen's POV is valid within that realm just as Joe's is valid within his own -- despite Joe being messed up too.

In a long-term situation of abuse, particularly when everyone you're in contact with treats the abusive situation as normal, people cope or break down. Jensen copes by knowing that his world is normal and right, and believing that it's possible for him to be good enough to please Master and ensure that the world runs smoothly. Joe copes by knowing that the world is normal and fucked up, and believing that if he's smart enough to give the people in charge what they want to see and hear, he can do as well for himself as is possible in said fucked up situation.

The fact that he's very self-aware and *knows* how screwed up that is doesn't change the fact that it's a manifestation of damage.

Agreed. [nod] I think the main difference between the two of them is exactly that awareness -- the fact that Joe knows how screwed up he and the world both are and Jensen doesn't.

Angie

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

But if you're completely focused on the fact that Master Is Right, and that whatever your master wants is the law of the universe, then selling you if he wants is the right thing to do and you'll have a new master to focus on soon and if you can be Good for him, he'll be pleased with you too.

Except that even Jensen knows that sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are. Sometimes your master's dog bites you and the small scar means you're no longer perfect. Sometimes your master gets married and the wife doesn't want you around, or master gets into debt and has to sell off his assets--including you.

Joe simply can't fathom the idea of buying into what he considers the bullshit. Dylan was a nice guy and as masters go, he was a good one, but he probably would have failed English comp sophomore year of high school if Joe hadn't written all of his papers for him. He had Robert Downey Jr. as a master, and on more than one occasion he had to pick him up and throw him in the shower after he'd passed out and thrown up on himself. He was involved in the scandal that destroyed a powerful man's political career, all because the guy fell for the pretty slave twink, got careless and got caught on film with Joe fucking him. He has to work to remind himself that Jason and David aren't stupid, because he's starting from the default assumption that the slaveowning class is, by and large, a bunch of helpless, not-very-bright people with more money than brains. His response to Jensen would be, "What do you mean, they have to guide us? Did you miss the part where most of these clowns couldn't wipe their own asses if they didn't have a slave to do it for them?" I don't doubt that Jensen also has a fair amount of contempt for the master class, but he buries it, even around other slaves. Joe's been fortunate enough that he's usually been in situations where he can vent and show his real feelings without too much fear that anyone will rat him out.

And he's right. [wry smile] But Jensen's a product of his environment and experiences just as Joe is, and Jensen's POV is valid within that realm just as Joe's is valid within his own -- despite Joe being messed up too.

Of course--which was kind of the whole point of this post. :) Jensen's training involved Cruise breaking him, and putting him back together to conform to his wishes. Nothing comparable ever happened to Joe--he was a stubborn little cuss when he went into the system, and now he's a stubborn big cuss who's learned to fake it very well.

Agreed. [nod] I think the main difference between the two of them is exactly that awareness -- the fact that Joe knows how screwed up he and the world both are and Jensen doesn't.

I thought the most recent AKB, with Jensen and Kane, was fascinating, because it was clear that Jensen knows most other slaves think he's crazy for believing the propaganda (or pretending to), and he resents that. But at the same time, after Kane's explanation, he simply doesn't--maybe can't--understand why Jeff feels guilty for doing something that he had every right to do. When Joe learned that Jason and David don't have sex with slaves, he totally understands the mindset--he just thinks it's bullshit, and eventually, they'll give in.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

I think we essentially agree with each other -- you just have more data about the characters than I do. Not that that's at all surprising, mind. [grin/duck]

And thanks for mentioning the latest AKB chapter -- it's not linked to the community so I hadn't read it. When you mentioned Jensen and Kane talking I went "Umm...?" and went looking. :)

Good stuff, and I'm starting to see Jensen's possible path out. Or if not out out, then at least farther up the side of the pit. If that makes any sense.

Angie

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

I think it's a given that a real jerkwad type of master is going to mess over any slave, possibly to the point of maiming or death, and there's nothing any slave is going to be able to do about it. But taking a step or two back down the asshole scale, a slave like Jensen might be able to satisfy someone who's exacting but not randomly cruel, and find some personal satisfaction in that. Whereas someone like Joe, who knows how messed up this is, would be more likely to harbor resentments and dissatisfaction which don't help him change anything.

Not necessarily--and that's one of those places where Joe's upbringing makes all the difference. He has had that master--Steve Jobs, most recently--and he didn't actually resent it when he was being unfair. It was just, "eh, whatever, life sucks, then you die." If things ever do get bad Joe's learned how to use the most common form of resistance in most slave-owning societies: he does exactly what he's told, to the letter.

Because he had the experience of being explicitly punished unfairly at an early age, he doesn't expect masters to be fair. He expects them to be capricious and random and to blame him for things he can't control, so he's learned to be devious and manipulative. He doesn't even consider changing the system; he just wants to make it work for him.

It seems to me that Joe can cope in a wider variety of situations than Jensen can, and that given their new positions with masters who aren't really into the whole slave thing, Joe will find the optimal level of adjustment and comfort more quickly and easily than Jensen will. (Although not right away or easily easily, just speaking comparatively.) But in a more extreme situation of abuse, Jensen would be the one to find that optimal adjustment position, and would be able to find some satisfaction in a situation where Joe would just be coping.

In a more extreme situation of abuse, Joe would probably end up getting sold quickly because he'd reach a point where he wasn't able to fake it well--which is a place where his age is becoming an issue. He can play the game; but he's less and less inclined to do so.

Jensen's adaptation, despite looking very broken to us, worked very well for him. "Stockholm Syndrome as a way of life" is exactly it, but when your "kidnapper" does in fact own you for most of your life, it's a logical development.

I think it's one logical development, but it's not the only valid adaptation, and it works best at the extreme end of things. Jensen's remarkably sane given that, as Ever put it, his provenance is a "who's who of rough trade in LA".

Yes, that's absolutely part of it. So far as we've seen, Jensen has been very isolated as a slave. Wasn't he the only slave when he was with Cruise? So we've got this little kid, taken away from his family, with only his master to rely on and look to, and no other slaves to give him any emotional support or a different POV.

As I tried to show in the most recent piece, Joe makes a point of ingratiating himself with the other staff for a couple of reasons. He's used to being friendly with them because Sherri and Andy in particular were effectively his parents--and also because he's seen who really runs any given household, and with Blair, he saw how the rest of the staff could make life miserable for a body slave. That's a huge point of difference, both in terms of how his attitudes were shaped--and that he does know that there are people who have his back.

Fortunately, Jensen has that now, even if he doesn't realize it.

[rose-in-texas.livejournal.com]

And yet for both of them, this one overriding truth holds: Give the master what he wants. No matter how they arrived at that position, it's the same for them both.

Jensen might give it because the master is right to want those things. Joe might give it because he thinks he can manipulate the master later. But they both end up in obedience as de facto condition.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. They're still slaves, and everything is about how they deal with that reality.